Sekretärin Deb Haaland
Secretary Deb Haaland emphasizes her obligation to future generations, discussing the urgency of climate change and the crucial inclusion of Indigenous voices in her decisions. She is the first Native American cabinet secretary in U.S. history.
Abschrift
Deb Haaland (00:05):
When you're born into the Pueblo culture, you have an obligation to your community. You have an obligation to future generations. You're not just here to take up space. My grandparents taught me that you have to keep things going.
Ted Roosevelt V (00:22):
Welcome to Good Citizen, a podcast from the Thedore Roosevelt Presidential Library's content studio. I'm Ted Roosevelt. In 2021, Congresswoman Deb Haaland became the first Native American cabinet secretary in the United States' history. She has a deep connection to her southwestern heritage. Her roots in New Mexico trace back 35 generations, and that may be why she considers it her duty to preserve our land for the generations yet to come. Interestingly, I'm doing this podcast and having these conversations about leadership in our nation, in part because of my roots in this nation and my commitment to conservation, but our histories and the experiences that brought us to this point couldn't be more different. In her role as Interior Secretary, Haaland must face the urgency of combating climate change while heading a department that historically oppressed our country's indigenous people, including in fact her own grandparents. She has seamlessly stepped into the role lifting the voices of Native Americans every step of the way. I am privileged to have discussed such important and personal topics with the secretary and am excited now to share our conversations with you.
(01:34):
Even before we get started, I wanted to say a couple months ago when we were sitting down and trying to figure out who we wanted to have on this podcast, we made a very short list. It was maybe half a dozen people. It included President Biden, President Obama, former presidents, and you were right there at the top of the list. You were one of my number one people that I wanted to talk to, so thank you for joining us.
Deb Haaland (02:07):
Oh, thank you. That's very kind.
Ted Roosevelt V (02:10):
When you accepted the nomination for Interior Secretary, you said, and I'm going to quote you here: "Growing up in my mother's Pueblo household made me fierce. I'll be fierce for all of us, our planet and all of our protected land." I read that quote and I thought, God, I want you on my side. I mean, I want you fighting for me. I mean, that is a great quote. I'm curious what the word "fierce" means to you. I mean, what does that inspire in you?
Deb Haaland (02:37):
I am feeling like— the climate crisis, this is a time— none of us can pretend that this crisis does not exist any longer, right? Every day you read the headlines, the climate crisis is real and it's happening around the world, and so all of us really have to, I mean, we all have to be on our game. This is an all hands on deck moment and I just feel like regardless, I just want to be out there doing the right thing. Sometimes I joke that at any given time, right when you're making decisions, there are people who don't like the decisions you make, but you got to make 'em from your heart. You have to include the voices of the people that these decisions affect. Keeping our door open unapologetically saying, your voice matters, tell me what you think, what is your perspective on this issue? And then making the decision that benefits the majority of Americans. You have to move forward always. You can't look back and we've done that, right, with a number of things. Our boarding school initiative for example. That's really difficult thing to do, but we want people to feel like they can get all of this horrible history off their chest. Let's talk about it. Let's share this era of history with all Americans, and as a country all heal together.
Ted Roosevelt V (04:11):
Yes, and for listeners unaware, the boarding school initiative is something you announced in 2021 to shed light on a federal program in the 19th century where tens of thousands of native children were taken from their families. The kids were put into boarding schools and forced to culturally assimilate, to essentially make them white Americans. They could be beaten, they could be starved just for speaking their native language. So this program of yours doesn't just shed light on this history, but really aims to address what you refer to as the intergenerational impact of these experiences. And it wasn't a sort of on high, let us tell you what the sort of plan is. You really gave them a forum to talk and you sat there and mostly listened. Where does that idea of leading with listening come from for you?
Deb Haaland (05:02):
With respect to this, of course, this whole boarding school initiative, it's been a fact finding mission. We had a report that came out. We researched everything that we could about the boarding schools, where they were located, how many students they had, and then once we got that report done, which is public, people can find that on our website and read through it. We felt that before too much more time passed that we wanted to give boarding school survivors and their descendants opportunities to tell their stories. I grew up with my grandmother who was taken away from her family, her and my grandfather both. They were from different pueblos. My grandmother, I would visit her on the weekends when I was in college and we would talk for hours and hours in her kitchen about her personal history, and she told me the priests went around the village to collect the children.
(06:02):
She was only eight years old, put her on a train and sent her over a hundred miles away from her family, which is a long way if all you have for transportation is a horse and a wagon. My great-grandfather, her father, was only able to visit her twice in the five years that she was away. But you couldn't get her to say anything bad about the school. You couldn't get her to say anything bad about any of the nuns. She said her rosary faithfully every night before she went to bed. She just didn't want to talk about it. She told me that much, but never went into detail, and that stuck with me for so many years and I never realized how it affected me, how it affected my mother until I got here and we started doing this work. It's something to sit there for eight hours and listen to heartbreaking story after heartbreaking story that has happened throughout this journey, but if that's what it takes to heal our country from this really awful era of American history, then it's so worth it to me.
(07:19):
Not only that, but it gives tribal leaders an opportunity to have us visit, to get people together. Community is so important, I think. It's important to all of us, right? We were not meant to be loners in this world. We all need our communities to lift us up, to tell us everything's going to be okay. And so that all has been part of it too. It's just gathering as communities so that we could be together and everyone can share. And some of these sessions, some people come and they sit there all day as well. They never say a word, but they want to just come and be supportive to the people who are telling their story. So I recognize that everybody has a role in our road to healing, and sometimes it's just sitting there and listening. I'm not the only one. There's a lot of people who do that, and we just want to be there for the folks who want to get that off their chest.
Ted Roosevelt V (08:17):
I do want to flag that that listening does require taking on some of the weight of those stories, and so it's not an easy task either, but a very important role to play. One of the reasons I was so thrilled to have you on this podcast was I think it sets up an unbelievably unique conversation, and the reason for that is my family's been in conservation for over a hundred years, and obviously as embodied by President Theodore Roosevelt, but that type of conservation, that sort of European mindset, that European approach to conservation is one that is changing. It's evolving in a lot of ways, and that evolution is drawing on a more Native American approach to conservation. One in which sort of your background, your history draws on, and even though it's not a new approach to conservation, it's maybe a newer approach to conservation for the United States. So I wanted to ask you really how you feel conservation's evolving? How is the Department of the Interior approaching conservation in ways that are different from how it has historically?
Deb Haaland (09:31):
Well, thank you so much for the question and for acknowledging that our hard work is kind of being seen throughout the country. Indigenous knowledge has been around for millennia. There's historical evidence that tribes have been in places for tens of thousands of years, so it's pretty evident to us that tribes know how to care for the land. As you know, a lot of tribes were moved off of their lands to make way for national parks and for what are now public lands. However, the obligation for those tribes to care about that land is never relinquished. So they have these obligations. We feel very strongly that having tribes share their knowledge with us about how to care for certain areas is incredibly beneficial. So we've moved ahead with that. We, we've entered over 20 co-stewardship agreements with tribal nations. We have 60 more in the work. In the time of this climate crisis, it's sort of an all hands on deck moment, and I can just tell you that we're incredibly grateful to the tribes who want to share their knowledge with us, and I've seen it in so many places that I've gone, and it's really wonderful to see.
Ted Roosevelt V (10:51):
I want to say I think it's great that this is where the Department of the Interior's focusing their energies and using that knowledge base in a way that is inclusive and helpful frankly to the conservation goals of the United States. You've talked about the collateral damage of the government's past policies, and there's a quote in the Washington Post article that came—great Washington Post article about you—but you said, with regard to the collateral damage, it's in the land, it's in the air, it's here, and if we want a healthy nation, that means healing for everyone. And what I find really poetic about that is that there's this, in my mind, there's a lovely inner connectivity here of your role protecting nature and the role of nature in healing, in land management, and how this all intertwines with the healing of a nation.
Deb Haaland (11:49):
Well, I mean, I think there is a lot of healing in nature, and I think a lot of folks realized that during the pandemic when we were all holed up in our houses because we were afraid of getting each other sick, but a lot of people recognize the value of nature in their lives, and now you might know that some of our national parks are really crowded because everybody recognized how important it is to stand, to hike to the top of a mountain and see the view or to just stand on a trail surrounded by old growth trees, right? It's a healing concept to wade in an icy stream and just feel the water on your skin. These are all things that some folks were missing out on, but now they know. Along with that, it's our obligation to steward those lands, right? To make sure that you and I, that our future generations, our kids and our grandkids have the same opportunities that we had. What I really would love for every American to feel, because I often say our public lands belong to every single American. I would love for every single American to recognize their obligation to our public lands, their personal obligation to steward lands that belong to all of us, right? It's all—we have to care for our outdoor spaces so that our children and our grandchildren can feel those same feelings that we have felt when we're in the outdoors.
Ted Roosevelt V (13:27):
I totally agree with you, and it's something that feels like it gets lost a little bit. That idea of the importance of our public lands. It feels like it gets lost a little bit each and every generation, and that COVID may have been a reminder. And what I really like is this idea of bringing Native American communities into the stewardship process of our public lands, and at the same time repairing some of the damage done in how our government dealt with the Native American communities and managed the Native American communities, and that somehow there's some connection there between those two. It's not the answer to everything, of course, but nature has always been my church. Nature has always been where I go to find solace and find myself, and I think we underestimate its ability and power to bring people together sometimes.
Deb Haaland (14:26):
Oh, absolutely. To bring people together, and as you mentioned, to heal. I was watching a show not too long ago and it talked about, the question was: why does time go by slow and why does time go by fast? And people research everything, which is kind of a good thing sometimes. They recognize that when you're in nature, time goes by really slow, and so those are the memories you have. Why it's so important to make sure that kids are outdoors because those are the memories that they will have. We have a job to steward, to create, to train, to open up future generations, to stewarding our lands, to having the jobs as biologists and researchers and folks who want to care about the water. If kids are afraid of the water, they're not going to want to protect rivers and streams. So it's our job to make sure that we are creating those opportunities for kids because they'll inhabit the jobs that you and I have down the road. So we want to make sure that everybody is in nature and feels that.
Ted Roosevelt V (15:40):
I sit on the board of the Trust for Public Land, I'm also on the board of the Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library, and they're two organizations that are very interested in promoting various conservation agendas and working with the Native American community. What advice would you give them to working with the native communities in a way that's not extractive and not duplicative?
Deb Haaland (16:02):
During my travels, there was an indigenous woman at a national park who started a program to study sweet grass, and she told us all that Native Americans are the most researched group of people in the entire country with the least amount of help. They research us to death, but yet they don't offer anything to say, we want to make your communities better. So we recognize that. We want to make sure that we're always, always being respectful. I feel that as the first Native American cabinet secretary, man or woman, we've never had an indigenous person serve on the president's cabinet, that I bring my perspective as a Pueblo woman with me. As long as I've been alive, the teachings that I've been honored to receive from my grandparents, my mother, my family members, I bring that perspective with me. So I hope that that instills a little bit of trust.
(17:04):
But I think in respect to the legislation that's been passed, that the president has pushed for, the amount of funding that has gone into Indian country at the behest of the President himself, shows that he is making good on the promises that he made to Indian country. The president reinitiated the White House Council on Native American Affairs, he restarted the Tribal Nation Summits. His priority of tribal consultation has been real, and I think the tribes see that, that we mean so well that we are staying true to the promises that the President made. And so I think it's a new era for Indian country, and in that respect, the tribes are willing to help us to move these issues forward.
Ted Roosevelt V (17:58):
I've seen you tear up sometimes talking to reporters in the past because you clearly care so deeply about these issues, and one of the themes of the podcast that comes up with the folks that we've talked to is this idea of vulnerability as a leadership skill, wearing your emotions a little bit more on your sleeve. I wonder if that's something that you've done intentionally and where that comes from.
Deb Haaland (18:24):
I'll go into something. I have no intention of getting emotional, but it's hard sometimes, right? When you're interacting with certain crowds, there's always an energy in the air that I think that affects speakers to their core, and it is hard sometimes to not get emotional. I mean, I think I get that from my dad, quite frankly. He always teared up from time to time when he was raising us. He was raised on a farm, cared deeply about his troops when he was in the Marines. This is just the way he was raised by his family. I joke that I get that from my dad. I feel like if there's anything worth crying over, it's the environment and where we are today with climate change. So there's a lot of work to do. The President is committed to ensuring that our clean energy transition happens, that we are conserving the land that we need to so that communities and people have something into the future. And so yes, we'll just keep doing that work.
Ted Roosevelt V (19:36):
Well, and Theodore Roosevelt, when he was preserving lands at the turn of the last century, one of the things that he said over and over again is that he was preserving these lands, not for himself, not for his generation, but he was very explicit about for the country's great-great-grandchildren, which as it turns out, is my generation. He's my great-great-grandfather, and I am always reminded that the work that folks before us did, we are the beneficiaries of, and I am very certain that the work that you are doing today, our great-great-grandchildren will be the beneficiaries of as well. And so it is just so important, the work that you're doing, and it's an honor, honor to talk to you today.
Deb Haaland (20:21):
I just feel so strongly about my obligations toward the earth, which gives us everything, toward my fellow human beings, my fellow Americans. I have an obligation to help people, so I do that in the best way I know how. I mean, I'm here because of my ancestors, right? I'm here because my ancestors, I mean, their lives were difficult. My Pueblo ancestors lived in the high desert. They were agriculturalists. They built structures out of stone and mortar. We'll just face that nature is brutal, and they lived through so much so that I could be here. When you're born into the Pueblo culture, you have an obligation to your community. You have an obligation to future generations. You're not just here to take up space. My grandparents taught me that you have to keep things going. If I've been able to mentor a few young folks along the way and help them find their footing and their calling, then I'm happy for that too.
Ted Roosevelt V (21:31):
I have one very short final question, and the final question is we ask everybody, what is one thing that you'd like to see people do in the civic arena? What is the sort of one urging that you could give to folks?
Deb Haaland (21:48):
None of us are on this planet on our own. We have an obligation to our fellow human beings, our fellow non-human relatives, in fact. So I hope that nobody ever feels alone here. We're all in this together. We all have a planet to think about as we're moving through our lives. And so I hope people just become aware that whatever they do, it affects other people. I read a piece about your great-great-grandfather and how the redwoods near Yosemite, Mariposa Grove were preserved. John Muir had taken him, and it was when he was president, he camped out there beneath this giant redwood tree, and he felt for himself the need to conserve that area. And I feel so strongly that he would've never known that if he wouldn't have slept under that tree. Right? You don't know how important nature is until you're out in it, and when you're the president of the United States, you have more opportunities than most to say, this is important. I declare that this is important to our country. But in this day and age, our president now has conserved more land than any president in this modern era since John F. Kennedy, and he's done that because communities have led those conservation efforts. So I don't ever want anyone to discount the value of their voice because collectively it moves presence to do things that will benefit our country so far into the future. So thank you for carrying on your great-great-grandfather's legacy. It's important, and I really appreciate the opportunity to speak with you about that today.
Ted Roosevelt V (23:43):
Well, thank you so much for joining us today, and it has been a real pleasure, and thank you for all the great work that you're doing.
Deb Haaland (23:51):
Alright, take care.
Ted Roosevelt V (23:54):
Truly an honor. Thank you Secretary Haaland for talking with me. Your work is invaluable. Thank you for highlighting the importance of community, of lifting the voices of the oppressed or underrepresented, and for working hard in the present to do right by the future. I have to say that I am grateful to my listeners as well. If you're enjoying these conversations, please recommend the podcast to a friend or share it on social media. Good Citizen is produced by the Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library's content studio in collaboration with the Future of StoryTelling and Charts & Leisure. You can learn more about TR's upcoming presidential library at trlibrary.com.